I'd love to understand what was driving you away from that world and, and eventually you abandoned it altogether.

altogether.I would love to say that these were conscious decisions that I took because I was ma-maturing and growing up and, and had other interests.

But the truth is, I, I f- sort of flunked out of the fashion world because it was imposed on me.

And by the mid-'80s, we were heading into a major recession.

It was...

It was difficult to be a fashion designer and make money in England because the market, this is, this is before really franchising sort of took off and, and designers, you know, were working for, uh, for sort of much bigger, uh, high street labels.

You know, that was just not a, a known thing really at the time.

And I'd love for you to, to talk about that from this lens of maybe we can all do more than we think we can.