And

I was gonna say, one of the things that, um, uh, Liv and I think both pride ourselves on is being the sort of managers that have an open door and are approachable.

I really felt that I was that manager.

I would go round the ward every day asking people how they were, asking people how they felt, asking what they needed, and, uh, getting a lot of, "Yes, I'm fine, sister.

Yeah, things are great." But I could see from our staff survey results, um, from some of the issues we were having w-with sickness, just from some of the, the ongoings of pervading themes that were coming through on the ward.

I could see that people weren't really fine and couldn't understand at the time why speaking to me was such a barrier.

You know, like, "Oh, I'm really approachable.

Mm.

What did you mean by that?

Okay, so I think what I said is that many of our challenges are fundamentally simple, because in principle they are.

It all starts with communication, communication between colleagues, teams, patients, sitting alongside compassionate leadership.

So visible leaders, leaders who hold themselves and others to account, and creating a culture and an environment where we are truly open with each other and able to talk through daily challenges.

That's an environment that we know leads to high standards of patient care.

It's widely recognised now.

It's well evidenced.

She has