So what do you see happen when founders grow before their systems grow?

Yes.

So there's so many facets to this, Michelle.

And I love the way that you think about visibility.

And so I think like to start with, You're so right.

Visibility and putting yourself out there as an individual and as a brand will expose the like seedy underbelly of your business.

So like if that house is not clean, everybody's gonna see it.

know, I

Like, at what point does the operational structure and how people manage their back end, their workflows, when does that become, like, the essential piece to sustainable personal brand growth?

It is such an important question, and I feel like there's two answers to that.

There's when most people think it becomes the ceiling, right? And you're, like, in the midst, but then there's the actual answer, which is that it needs to happen so much sooner than I think a lot of business owners and entrepreneurs think about.

So, you know, the way that I really like to think about it quite a bit is, um, yes, systems, processes, you know, how you're kind of running things behind the scenes, it is never gonna be as fun and flashy as content, social media, visibility, you know, especially in this day where, like, so much of that is actual in-person connections anymore.

So of course that's gonna be the most fun and most important thing.

But the way that I like to see it actually doesn't have much to do with kind of the systems or the processes themselves.

That's, um, almost kind of like a, a means to an end.

[laughs]