Ann Voskamp

And speaking of future conversations, if you hit follow or subscribe wherever you're watching or listening, you will get Sean Morgan and Warren Byrd in a future episode.

My wife, Toni Nieuwhof, said Toni Nieuwhof, along with John Ortberg and Ann Voskamp.

Yeah, John's coming back.

Jimmy Miato, Andrew Hopper, Chuck DeGroat, and a whole lot more.

Initially, it's a kind of devotional space for many women.

Women like Ann Voskamp just kind of do spiritual journaling, but on a blog and they, without even realizing it, start to gain significant followings.

But then you see women like Rachel Held Evans and Sarah Bessie and Nadia Boltz-Weber start blogging their deconstruction journeys for various reasons.

They all start to question fundamentalism.

Initially, it's a kind of devotional space for many women.

Women like Ann Voskamp just kind of do spiritual journaling, but on a blog and they, without even realizing it, start to gain significant followings.

But then you see women like Rachel Held Evans and Sarah Bessie and Nadia Boltz-Weber start blogging their deconstruction journeys for various reasons.

They all start to question fundamentalism.

Coming up on the podcast, back to our regularly scheduled programming with Annie F. Downs, Seth Godin, Sean Morgan, and Warren Byrd with some eye-popping stats on multi-site churches.

My wife, Toni Nieuwhof, Jon Ortberg, Ann Voskamp, and a whole lot more.

I'm so glad you joined us today.

Thank you so much for listening.

Love this.

My last one is Loved to Life, a 40-day pilgrimage with love himself that will change your life by Ann Voskamp.

Ann is one of my dear friends.

She lives just across Lake Huron from me.

So I had a lot of fun looking into the history of Precious Moments figurines, Thomas Kinkade prints, right? And then I also had a lot of fun researching stories that I had lived through, particularly the chapter on bloggers and the evolution from blogger to influencer.

So rereading Ann Voskamp, Jen Hatmaker, Rachel Held Evans, Sarah Bessie, LaTosha Morrison, right? These women that I had kind of, I had watched this play out firsthand and then I returned to it as researcher and And I was able to interview some of these women as well.

And it was just very fun to, to put those pieces together in a way.

And as, as one of them told me later after she'd read the chapter, like she learned so much just from seeing it all put together and analyzed in this way.

This was when Hillsong were going big.

This is at the same time, by the way, when Hillsong leaders were paying themselves millions of dollars in salaries, benefits and royalties, and giving their conference speakers like T.J. Jakes, Joyce Meyer and Ann Voskamp honorarians of up to $150,000,000.

Buying expensive meals at five-star restaurants on the church credit card.

There's an example that occasionally cost up to $10,000.