But before me glossing over it, why don't you tell us something If you had to describe the main thrust of your book, how would you describe it?

The main thrust of the book, let's see.

I spent almost all of my life navigating multiple identities.

I was born in South Korea, but I was born a biracial child of a Jewish father and a Korean Buddhist mother.

And in Korea, your citizenship is actually traced through your father.

So I wasn't a citizen of the country I was born in, even with a Korean mother.

And I was aware of the fact that I was different than other Korean children.

not a good job for a jewish boy or girl

But just your take on these two stories and the fact they land for us on Rosh Hashanah, why, what it means, what we should take from them.

So I often, especially for people who are not Jewish, I think a big question could be, why do you read the same exact passages every year? Why don't

you vary it up a little bit? You know,

this is when you get all your Jews

in

town and you just read the same story year after year after year.

And I always appreciate that the same exact story something else comes out every year that's different.

Could you tell us a little bit about, you know, what happened, how you as a community reacted to this? How are you, I assume, still reeling from that attack?

Because it feels like it might be better left unsaid, but I'm curious how you manage that.

You know, I, um- It's difficult, but I, a- and I never have pursued fame for its sake.

Um, I have a message that I wanna share, and I've always felt like I wanna get this out to a wide as audience as possible.

I feel like this is what I'm called to do.

Um, I feel the weight and the pain of it.

I actually would like to be more anonymous, um, when I'm walking in the street.

I don't like to dress up all the time.

So what's your best pitch?

Like, it's so contradictory to me.

I think that when Jews feel under threat and behave out of a place of fear, we often react in ways that build bigger walls.

So that switch that happens from patrilineal descent to matrilineal descent, it's not a coincidence that it happens kind of around the time of Ezra when Jews are coming back, but they're, only the remnant is really coming back.

You were allowed to come back, um, you know, in the time of the Second Temple, and Ezra basically says, "We see all these intermarried Jews." And he feels that's so threatening at a time when he thinks Judaism is disappearing-

Yeah

... of something that, new that will be born.

And I think that, um, what I've really come to appreciate is Judaism was built for crisis.

So much of our liturgy of the holidays that we just celebrated together, um, were born out of times when Jews were martyred, uh, like the martyrology or Unetaneh Tokef or Kol Nidre, which was about when people had to make vows that they didn't, they couldn't keep 'cause they were done under duress.

Yep.

Now, you can also become a Jew through conversion, um, which is a process that, of learning and then of also having a group of three rabbis and having a thing.

Anyway, now, um- I would like to just add a, like a little historical footnote that in the time of the Bible, if you read the Bible, there the identity was actually patrilineal- Huh ... meaning like it was about your father.

So at some point- Wow ...

it changed in Jewish tradition.

Interesting.

I say this just to say that like I don't know exactly- It's maternal ... why this has been the, you know- Yeah ... why do we now make this all about ma- m- maternal.

Not being acknowledged, yeah

'Cause it feels like it might be better left unsaid, but I'm curious how you manage that.

You know, I, um...

It's difficult, but I...

A- and I never have pursued fame for its sake.

Um, I have a message that I wanna share, and I've always felt like I wanna get this out to a wide as audience as possible.

I feel like this is what I'm called to do.

Um, I feel the weight and the pain of it.

So what's your best pitch?

So what are the guardrails on doubt and inquiry that lead it to become constructive rather than destructive?

That's a great question.

So I think when you are doubting and debating, there are a few guardrails that Judaism brings in.

The first is when you are learning and studying and doubting, you aren't doing it by yourself.

There is a principle that you study in hevruta, which is in pairs.

So to begin with, you are already kind of assigned a dialogic sparring partner for coming up with your thoughts.

So y- you have to actually...

So does Judaism, it sounds like Judaism makes more room for that?

So what, what happens at Shabbat?

Yes.

Well, in the most traditional way it is the Sabbath and the, the, the Jewish protocols around Sabbath is if you wanna make this a, a holy day, a sacred day, you have to set it apart.

And one of the ways, um, sort of more traditional ways is, of course, you have a meal, you can go to services at it, at...

But even people who don't go to services, they generally have large family and friends over for, um, a Friday night meal and a Saturday lunch over the Sabbath which begins sundown Friday to sundown Saturday.

And it also includes, um-... unplugging from your electronic devices.

No phones, no TV, um, which, boy, is that ...

What would you tell people about that concern, maybe e- from people in your own synagogue or in your community, and do we have a chance to make it better?

What do you mean by that?

Mm (sighs).

Um, well, just a little background because I think that any, any, um, one who is a Christian, Muslim, or Jew who descends from the, you know, the children of Abraham, we all share an origin story.

The origin story in the Bible is that when Abraham is called to begin the Hebrew peoples, he's actually called by God, "Leave your birth place, your home and, and go to this place that I will show you and you will be a blessing." And, and when he crosses over, the word in Hebrew for crossing over, Ya'avor, is where the word Ivri comes from.

Ivri is literally a Hebrew.

So, the translation of Hebrew is a boundary crosser in a sense.

And there's a sense that God doesn't allow Abraham to become or create Judaism from a place of comfort and home, that he has to actually know what it's like to feel like a stranger.

Mm-hmm.

So what, what happens at Shabbat?

Yes, well, in the most traditional way, it is the Sabbath and the, the, the Jewish protocols around Sabbath is if you wanna make this a, a holy day, a sacred day, you have to set it apart.

And one of the ways, um, sort of more traditional ways is, of course you have a meal, you can go to services, at a, at...

But even people who don't go to services, they generally have large family and friends over for, um, a Friday night meal and a Saturday lunch over the Sabbath which begins sundown Friday to sundown Saturday.

And it also includes unplugging from your electronic devices.

No phones, no TV, um, which, boy, is that, the electronic Sabbath is such a key right now-

What would you tell people about-... that concern maybe e- from people in your own synagogue or your near community? And do we have a chance to make it better?

I share Dan's feeling that in...

Could you have imagined that?

Not in my wildest dreams, Dan.

I knew that this is what I wanted to do with my life.

I couldn't think of something that would feel more meaningful, challenging, interesting.

Like, I wanted to be immersed in the questions that rabbis get to think and talk about.

I was like, "I can't believe there's a job in which that's what you get to do.

Immerse yourself in these texts, be with people, and think about big questions of life." Like, that, I couldn't believe that's something you get to do.

Did you see anyone move in the other direction?

I'm just interested to know, partly because you've got such a large community, so there must be a real, by just numbers, there has to be a range of views there, h- what are you doing to keep people together even as you have these yourself, your own very, you know, deeply held strong views on this subject?

Um, I have an incredibly diverse congregation and it's demographically, geographically diverse, even religiously diverse, 'cause I have a number of non-Jews, you know, connected to Jews in the community that are part here- part of it, racially diverse.

Also ideologically, politically diverse, which by the way, in America, is rarer than you would think.

Um, we have basically lost the spaces where people who had ideological and political differences would gather together.

Uh, you know, churches have been disintegrating, synagogues as well, the- the- the kind of social clubs that would bring people across difference together have, have, have started to disappear.

People are siloing into their bubbles, as you know, um, so I actually think that this is a sacred obligation to keep this ideologically diverse community as one, and I think it's important for, uh, our democracy here in America that people do this for our Jewish souls, um, and I know that having people who are pushing at me from, from different ends of this spectrum, uh, helps keep me more intellectually honest, honestly, because I am constantly thinking from the perspective of where they're coming from.

(music jingle) I'm constantly thinking, "How do I, um, articulate the view I don't agree with, uh, in the most respectful, strongest way possible?" Because by the way, that's Jewish (laughs) to do it that way.

So, I thought if you could, you could tell us about the gloss you put on this phrase, (...), which has become famous as a song, and then, because traditions must be observed, if you would then sing this rather beautiful song for us.

Um, and this is, uh, the answer that she gave us.

This question of do we celebrate, how do we celebrate, I guess it's not a new question.

In many ways, this is the question we've been asking ourselves since October 7th.

I think about Itai Chen's family, um, his...

He was taken into captivity and they had their youngest son's bar mitzvah the next week.

Do we celebrate? Um, I think about Doron Peretz's family.

They had one son, he was shot, and another one in captivity, and he had a wedding.

See you then, and Chag Sameach.