Andy Cato

So those early stages of systems transition, the forces tend to come from outside of the system.

But what we heard, and this was so powerful in what Andy Cato shared, is that in order to tip a system, you often have to do it from inside because then you understand the system, you understand how to create that critical mass of acceptance, you understand the structures.

the policies, the flows of finance, which if you're out of the system would be really, really hard to understand.

And so I was just really struck by that sort of outside in being linked to the sort of temporal nature of the system's transition.

We've got Sir David Attenborough at number 61.

Who else? Andy Cato at number 32.

And I come to number 26 and who do I find? I find listeners Claire Mackenzie and Colin Ramsey.

And this is what the copy says.

Essentially, produce more, faster, and cheaper.

My guest, Andy Cato, once lived a very different life.

He has performed on some of the biggest stages in the world as one half of Groove Armada.

But one day, he sold his rights to his music to dedicate himself to the soil.