Amy Sillman

I had a windfall of about $1,300, and I thought, oh, I could make a magazine with this $1,300, and I could ask all these different people to do something.

And so Kenny did something, and Amy Sillman curated a beautiful section of drawings with like Louise Bourgeois and Nicola Tyson in it and Jim Nutt.

And that started it.

And then I got the magazine Bug and kind of took over for a good period of my 30s.

There were only a few women.

Natalie Rivera was one of them.

Amy Sillman was one of them.

But there weren't many women and mostly men.

And that was really great.

And when he walked into, you know, the exhibition space where he was able to let more of his freak flag fly, there was... a particular pairing that I thought was incredible that I'd never seen before, a Pope L painting hung next to an Amy Sillman.

Is she?

Yeah, but just to set the stage a little bit, so this is like on the kind of, I'm not sure if it's the Gold Coast, but one of these big, tall buildings.

there's not enough disruption.

And talking of Amy Sillman, actually, she talked about her own rules of painting.

And one of her rules was trouble, get herself in and out of trouble.

And I wonder if that comes to this idea of when you've made a painting like that, you need to get the painting in trouble again to make it actually interesting.