[laughs]

Um, primarily because I came from alcohol, fine wine, and champagne after training in Paris, and viewing great winemakers as artists, and those similar artists did not technically exist in the same way in the non-alcoholic wine space because of that sort of gap.

And so I had to rip up my sort of traditional rule book in finding great partners to make wine with, 'cause I had my own, uh, sparkling wine brand and, uh, champagne brand specifically.

And so it was really a case of trying literally everything that was out there in the global market, anything that was non-alcoholic from sparkling fruit juices to variations on very basic non-alcoholic wines that existed, and then sort of seeing where to take it from there.

Um, it was quite a different landscape than when I was researching my partners in fine wine.

I- i- in that regard, there were plenty.

It was just finding out where the synergy would lie, 'cause my specialty in fine wine was zero or low dosage, so having not too much added sugar and letting the grapes do the talking.

Do you see something similar happening with Naughty, and, uh, did you maybe also design the product for it in some way, or w- were you surprised by this trend?

So where do you want to get started? What is the first ingredient?

Well, I think we had an exploratory conversation and I hadn't really realized intuition was so key for me, but you helped me realize it was.

And we had a conversation about market research and what I suppose we call R&D, research and development.

And it's not to say that I didn't do R&D, research and development, as in taste a lot of non-alcoholic wines.

I did all of that.

But in terms of intuition, I didn't actually truthfully have all that data that confirmed my hypothesis that there were millions of wine drinkers like me who were staying in our lane and didn't have any non-alcoholic wine to drink.

That data actually truthfully has come later.

And through the process, what other ingredient do you want to talk about that helped you get through this?

Or is it starting from a different process? Or is there a combination involved?

I think both your points are pertinent.

The shorthand is the former.

The latter answer is it's quite nuanced and complex because everything you're doing right from the beginning should play into when you're removing the alcohol and the important piece is to remove it gently.

is to retain those vinous, wine-like qualities.

So what I've tried to set out to do with Naughty, and hopefully you agree successfully, is to produce something that's not trying to compete to be a replica, but just sits comfortably alongside and can be and equal to in a different way alongside champagne or sparkling wine, certainly with the sparklings.

And it was a great challenge, Janie.

Am I right in thinking that's really quite low in naughty? Yes,