Allusion

"I got debts no honest man can pay." It's Tupac, eating Jack Mac, staring at the walls in silence, inside this cage where they captured all my rage and violence.

I have discovered that if I could infuse my work via allusion with the work that helped me shape me, th- then I'm recognizing that the tradition is the tradition.

Hmm.

When I first used that Bruce Springsteen line, a friend of mine said, "Dwayne, I don't know if you know this, but that line you used, 'I got debts no honest man can pay,' Bruce Springsteen used the same line." [laughs]

You riff on the philosophy of other people.

This is a part of your whole career.

You exist within a tradition, and you think that I'm supposed to be a writer that doesn't exist within a tradition? I exist within a tradition, and the way that we acknowledge our tradition is through allusion, A-L-L-U-S-I-O-N." But we don't get taught these things in school, and so sometimes we mischaracterize what it means to create a, a bouquet of references and resources.

In the last book, in that one, it's a poem.

But in the process, she's got to distance herself from Dan Markell.

And in doing that, is she literally pointing the finger at Charlie Adelson and also making some serious illusions about her daughter? I mean, A-L-L-U-S-I-O-N-S about her daughter, Wendy Adelson.

Could that be happening? Could the tide be

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