Allan Schore

Okay.

So I really kinda come at this from, like, the discipline of, like, interpersonal neurobiology, Allan Schore, Dan Siegel.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and-

Um, yeah, and there was a time...

I, I tell people, like, um, I just bought all these books, Allan Schore, Dan Siegel, um-

Yeah

... reading all the primary resources.

And it wasn't in her words, it was in her body, all right? And it landed then in my body.

And there is a neurobiologist that I was looking into named Alan Shore.

And Alan Shore calls right brain to right brain communication.

That's what he did his research on.

which means the body speaks to the other body before any language gets involved, right? And most of us know this sensation, all right? But the therapist's nervous system, no different than anybody else's, right, picks up on what the client's nervous system is saying, maybe not through words, but like through their tone or posture or like microexpressions, right? Maybe a particular quality of presence or even absence in the room.

In times of stress, our thinking becomes confused, distorted, and our short-term memory is suppressed.

And then in Alan Shore's tome on affect regulation, his very first one called Affect Regulation and the Origin of the Self, he cites in the foreword, he cites Taylor et al., 1997.

It is believed that affect dysregulation is a fundamental mechanism involved in all psychiatric disorders.

It is believed that being stressed out is the fundamental mechanism in all psychiatric, psychological, behavioral, cognitive.

Mm-hmm.

It's, it's so interesting.

I just, uh, I just had the opportunity to sit with Alan Shore on a, on a four hour masterclass.

And, um, he, he, I mean, he, all of it was based around what you've just been talking about.

So attachment and emotional regulation is all right brain.

And so, and as for references on this, by the way, besides my books, a guy named Dr. Allan Schore out of UCLA has written more than just about anybody.

One of his most recent books is called The Unconscious Mi- Development of the Unconscious Mind.

Mm.

[gentle music] Welcome to The Conversational Space, a podcast for the Australia New Zealand Association of Psychotherapy, ANZAP, hosted by Leo Liddell.

Today I'll be speaking with Dr. Allan Schore, focusing on his new book, The Right Brain and the Origin of Human Nature.

With us today is Dr. Allan Schore.

Uh, Allan's on the clinical faculty of UCLA's David Geffen School of Medicine.

He's the author of numerous influential works, including Affect Regulation and the Origin of the Self, Right Brain Psychotherapy, many others.

Anyways, he has this idea, this concept that he's developed based on his research of neuroscience and how that attachment system works.

He came up with a theory that he calls the attachment as a bioregulatory system, which to me kind of goes to the idea of what Alan Shore said.

conceptualized decades ago, which is that attachment is basically, he kind of reframed attachment theory as regulation theory.

And I was recently in a, um, Legacy and watching a they're called legacy interviews, but so it's kind of more of an interview than a training, but it's also kind of training.

So it was really fascinating.

So it got me.

to thinking how if we're looking at emotion regulation and we're looking at emotion regulation as this kind of constructed experiences and how our brain makes sense of that and the meaning that it makes from it and this theory of constructed emotions and we're looking at how development works emotional development happens in children based on this theory of constructed emotion then we're looking at others and what are they observing from others and the cultural nuances and the environmental context of that and that to me brings us to this idea of attachment And so this whole idea of attachment as a bioregulatory system, or what Alan Shore and his colleagues call regulation theory, And what does that mean? So if we're looking at the bioregulatory system, then we're looking at the brain.

And this kind of also ties into this theory of constructed emotions.