Allan Gray

you and hopefully the conversation is worthwhile.

In order to explain eSquared in the universe of impact investors, we maybe need to talk around the... establishment of e squared so e squared was established through the auspices of alan gray and the gray family so what had happened was in 2007 alan gray sold a minority equity stake of alan gray the asset manager to to e squared trust And so that was in creating the broad-based black ownership scheme for Alan Gray.

And funny enough, if you look at some of the earlier interviews, he talks about how he actually wanted to establish the relationship with Alan Gray Orbis Foundation, the scholarship and bursary program.

And he squared a lot earlier on in like 1986, but I think the tax authorities back then wouldn't allow him to do it.

And so come 2004, he establishes the Alan Gray Orbis Foundation, which is the scholarship and bursary scheme.

And if you think about it, even back then, the biggest impediments to entrepreneurship was access to finance, access to markets, education and training.

So with Alan Gray Orbis Foundation, or AGOF, is doing the education and training element.

What the hypothesis was, if these individuals would go on and do really well at university, get the entrepreneurship orientation education that they get through agoff because they have to complete a whole bunch of entrepreneurship a curriculum together with their curriculum at university that they would go on to work for some of the best people that they would learn from these individuals that they would start to identify opportunities at the market And once they have identified those opportunities and were looking to exploit those opportunities, that they then needed access to finance, right? And once they would establish these businesses, these businesses would create jobs, and that's how we would attack poverty in the country.