So what kind of responsibilities do you have in this new role? Do you serve on committees? Are there sort of particular areas where your expertise is being embraced?

Yeah, so I would say there are probably... four things that we can do as members of the upper house.

Firstly is, well, since I am non-party political, but also if you're in an opposition party, you're there to hold the government to account.

So you can ask questions.

And when you ask questions, the government has to respond.

So I can table up to six questions a day, written questions, and the government has to respond within a timeframe.

So that's quite a useful power.

And I wonder, how are you thinking about that issue of trust now that you've moved to this different space where you, again, are just talking about how you're already thinking about how to how to shape your speeches in a different kind of way.

Okay.

Yeah.

So I'm Jess, and I run two businesses.

I first have run Just Creatives for the last 15 years.

I do web design and SEO for health professionals.

And then just over a year ago, I started, very accidentally, The Ordinary Business, um, because I was venting on Threads, as one does.

[laughs] And, um, then The Ordinary Business was kind of born out of this idea of, like, there are so many of us business owners who do really good work.

An ord- an ordinary me- membership.

you know is have more clients and make more money and like to me and this is the bit that I really wanted to talk about it's just having this notion of look there's a point where you can just stop growing and like not necessarily keep everything as is as we were saying but not focus on big numbers and big growth and i really wanted to know like what were some things that you kind of like stopped chasing once you figured out like what your enough was yes

i feel like one of the first things that i really i don't want to say let go of because i didn't like delete it or anything was my email list because everyone is obsessed with like, again, I didn't delete it.

I still email my list, but you know, everyone is like your money's in the list.

Yep.

Sales emails, like all the things email does not work for me.

I have hired launch copywriters.

I have had copywriters like ghostwrite my emails.

It's just it's not going to happen.

How is this different from information that we've provided before?

Yeah, so basically the biggest shift is kind of organizing the information around what landlords are trying to do rather than how we were structured internally.

So before it was kind of grouped together by content type.

So you had events, training and news in one area and then guidance and documents in another one.

So it was kind of fine if you're a landlord on the website and you know exactly what you're after, but not really if you had a problem to solve.

So now I think, you know, it's a bit more logical.

It's a group together in four different landlord behavior journeys.

Is this based on kind of research or your analysis of the kind of traffic to the website?