What do you suspect you're welcoming into your life more, and what do you suspect you probably could start to let go of?

Hmm.

Well, I would say the thing that it feels like I am letting go of more and more is, um, the storytelling that comes with the bias towards certain kinds of metrics.

And what I mean is, like, certain ways that we evaluate success or, you know, something like that, which is money and a certain kind of job and being able to talk about a certain thing.

I mean, there are so many ways that I am learning to trust intuition as a real source of truth and not second-guess it, and I have to let go of a lot of the, you know, second-guessing that comes from the outside world.

It's like, "You don't know what you're talking about," or, "You don't have a degree in that," or, "You're not a dance movement therapist, and you don't have a PhD," or whatever the thing is, the little voice.

Learning to really not care that much about that, those words and that voice, and stay with...

How does that change you?

And the question I have for you is how can developmental movement, the way infants gradually learn to organize their bodies, help adults rebuild safer, more efficient movement patterns after pain, trauma or surgery?

Yeah, well, I know you know this, but for listeners, I will say that for traditional development, let's say there's no developmental delays or disturbances in a baby going into toddler and learning to walk, there are six stages that they go through.

And those stages, we call them body organizations or developmental patterns, those stages are always in that order.

And that order is actually mirrored gestationally.

So the baby develops in the womb in the same series of patterns.

And if you look back, it's also the development of species.

So if you go from like the amoeba to the human, it's the same six in the same order.

For someone who's lost trust in their body, how can internal feedback such as sensation, breathing and weight distribution help them reconnect with it? And what practical first step could they take today?

But for artists, tell me, how can you help artists for that? And, you know, my question, and I hope I didn't lose you for my question then, but what does that mean for you to trust yourself as a creator?

Well, I thank you for all that.

And I feel like there are quite a few different facets to this.

It's not like one and done, I'll do this and you'll just trust yourself.

And certainly that moment that your, your friend is describing where there's a feeling of being frozen.

For me, it's usually more than one thing are coming to the, trying to do the same thing at the same time and they're hitting each other.

And it's, it's, causing this freezing.

What's the relationship between creativity and the parts of ourselves that we usually try to hide? And how does art help us access through those hidden parts?

But I would love to hear your thoughts as to how it came to you and how it developed over years.

I think a lot of the things that we are healing from came from systems, whether that's the patriarchy or nationalism or misogyny, ableism, et cetera, racism.

A lot of the trauma that we're healing from came from somebody else's expectation for us or somebody else's deciding that we didn't fit, didn't belong, weren't acceptable.

And the healing from that is not becoming the thing that they said we should be, but in releasing the attachment to this ideal, whether that's about gender or aesthetic or whatever it is.

And I think there's no greater revolution or rebellion than being lovingly and unapologetically ourselves.

And I say lovingly because I think sometimes that idea of being unapologetically yourself becomes an aggressive thing.

I'm going to do what I want to do and I don't care about anybody else.

Make sure it is there so that if you're listening to this episode, if you're watching this and the ideas that we explored that speaks to you, please check out the book from the description.

And I've

been doing this in a lot of different platforms.

One of them, I just did a presentation on this for NDEO, and I speak about this kind of stuff at conferences, including I did this at the LIMS conference.

Last July.

And the main portal that I use to talk about inclusivity in the classroom is stability, mobility, which is one of the four themes in the Laban-Barteniev system.

You know, as dance people, movers, we might think about stability, mobility, you know, grounding on one side to be able to mobilize another body part.

or stability of the core, but like mobility of what part of the core is firing at a given moment.

Who do you, do you foresee your books being like used as textbooks in schools mainly?

Yeah

... a choreographer could create a dance and somebody could basically draw it on a piece of paper with very specific symbols, and then that dance would be, um, you know, kept for posterity forever.

Of course, this was before the advent of video.

The notation system is not what I do.

Um, the notation system though required that he analyze the human body for meaning, um, and movement for meaning.

So what body part is doing what action? That's body.

Where is it going? Is it dimension, a plane, a diagonal? What kind of pathway? What kind of size kinesphere is it using? That's space.

Explain.

... that's outside of you?

That would be idyllic.

I can't say that I've arrived at that.

I, I think it's similar to what happens in, like, a romantic breakup, where there is this possibility you can take this person's decisions and feelings about you and take that as some kind of fact about you, or you can see it as the ecosystem it is, which is like, okay, that person has certain feelings about me that I don't agree with.

I could reject them wholesale.

I could try to separate the way it got communicated with, like, mm, a little bit of interrogation of myself of where is that true, or what do I think they drew that from? W- why do I think they made that conclusion, and is there any usefulness for me in feeling into it and considering it and investigating it? And in my, like, highest self, I would say my ideal world would be to treat things like negative press in that way, in a, like, interesting, that's a very different story that you have about my material than I have.

I wonder where you got that from.

Can you talk a little bit about the shift?