Alex Tsipras

Because at some point, a young man who was going to be prime minister in two thou- 2015-

... uh, Alexis Tsipras, with whom I was talking, like I was talking to many different politicians and warning them about-

Mm

...

Uh, that the financial crisis was seen as a financial crisis on the one level, and on another level it was seen as a European crisis of governance, but it wasn't seen as something which Greece could be, if you want, coerced into making concessions in terms of its foreign policy.

I suppose the one outcome in a sense of the government of Alexis Tsipras, who saw out a vast part of the financial crisis, was the agreement with North Macedonia, which put an end to that particular issue.

And that I think is a turning point in terms of Greek foreign policy as well because now it's restored fully as this country which is not objecting to the emergence of North Macedonia, has reached an agreement with it, with it, uh, can become a senior partner in the relationship, uh, and is not seen to be the sort of black sheep of the European Union with respect to the Western Balkans and with respect to this particular issue.

It's a sort of more modern Greece now.

And I think that pivot is a really important one, and that pivot is one which shapes Greek foreign policy in the '70s and '80s.

But I think you're absolutely right.

In the last decade, including under the government of Alexis Tsipras and Syriza, and especially under the new democracy government of Kyriakos Mitsotakis, you've seen an attempt to balance out the relationship with Washington and with the European Union, especially in security terms.

So you have bilateral agreements with the United States of America within the context of NATO, you know, a special mutual defense agreement which guarantees, um, uh, uh, military equipment which otherwise would not be available to Greece, including very advanced weaponry like, you know, F-35 fighters.

in a way, because Greece had a very flexible political system, much easier for new parties to rise and fall.

They had a huge issue regarding, you know, a sort of populist uprising with Alexis Tsipras.

This was 10 years or so ago when Greece was having its debt problems.

But now they took a lot of pain.

...

I remember Tsipras from the left side of things.

Tsipras in Greece, he said a lot of, a lot of the right things.

Yeah.

It took him 24 hours to become an uber globalist.

he hopes will help entice voters to support his party.

And I think what really adds to the kind of pre-election flavor that you mentioned is that a few days before Mitsotakis went to Thessaloniki, the international fair there, to set out his economic policy for the coming months and years if he gets re-elected, Alexis Tsipras, the leader of ELAS, the center-left party that's trying to become the main opposition voice in Greece, essentially beat him to it, went to Thessaloniki at the sidelines of the fair, announced his own package of measures.

And it's interesting the contrast between the two.

Again, emphasizes this approach from both of them to try and win over voters.

I think ultimately, though, what remains is that the emphasis was very much on trying to ease the burden on households.

And the question there is to what extent those households believe either of those packages, either of the offers made by...

Prime Minister Mitsotakis and Alexis Tsipras, who is the leader of the leading opposition party, according to the opinion polls, will really make a difference, will really have the credibility and the attraction that people need to vote for their parties.

Well, Yanni, give us a broader sense of the economic scope here of these measures that Prime Minister Mitsotakis is putting before the electorate, because I've seen some numbers in the range of 2.2 billion euros.