But I mean, do you, you know, not to hammer on the question, but do you think that at that point where you're just like, okay, the concept is this, that you were sort of protecting yourself from, or just sort of like, yeah, what do you think was the genesis?

So the reason why I can appreciate your observation and perspective on that is... because I suppose there was a moment where a friend of mine said to me when I just made the record and I was doing shows around Sydney, I was wearing liquid latex on my face to age myself.

I was performing angry at the crowd.

I was like, the show continued off stage and you know, I was young and probably thought I'm gonna try and carry the torch a bit in that world, you know, that sort of like the story doesn't end when you're off stage, you know, there's a lineage to that.

The mask becomes the face.

Yeah.

And my friend, I remember my friend, I was probably only 23 or 24 at the time, and my friend, Jack Ladder, whose name is Tim Rogers, he was like, you know that the music's good and... you're young and like maybe give the music a shot and stop like sort of disfiguring yourself and just go and do it and see how that goes instead and after he sort of said that I was like oh I'm trying to compensate for what I'm worried might be like the music's not enough and I need to do more than just the music But to sort of try and answer your question a little clearer, I didn't have any need to defend myself or to build up an excuse to why it made sense for me to do it because no one was listening.

When did you start writing songs?

Is it better to finish through and write a bad song or write no song?

Well, better is finish what you started.

Personally what I've found to be true is I, I, I have like songs that are corpses under the mattress, and I just, if someone come, if someone were to even go near it they would start to smell a bad vibe.

So I, I, I try and hide, hide, hide from my previous works.

I really don't like them.

Um, not, not in terms of like I'm being critical of myself.

I, they just feel like anchors to the past in a way that like, you know, they feel...

Hmm.

Do you ever fancy, like, you know, when you're playing shows in the States or when you're playing shows elsewhere that, like, it does hit an audience and they don't quite get it, or is it kind of like like-minded souls when you play shows?

They, they get it.

They get it here, yeah, in America.

I- they're inside it.

They live in it, you know? And the audiences are always very fucking cool here.

And I think maybe, like, there's a certain pressure when you're operating in, in a sort of fraught lyrical territory.

You know, I think the idea of it, of my music being misunderstood is something that, like, maybe on the business side that there's, that's been con- voices, voices of concern have sort of echoed certainly from record labels and people like that.

Visin.

Yeah.

Um, and traces found of various sedatives and things in their systems.

Um, to cut a long story short, the sort of police force took a long time to really get around to it, but eventually arrested a guy called Bevan Spencer von Einem, who lived with his mum, was known for playing the harp, uh, was an accountant.

And he's the only man...

That's the guy that's just died recently.

So he's the only man that's ever been arrested for this.

But the urban mythology that's grown from that was there was this group called The Family-

Yeah.