the

breaths are taken out.

And look, that's one of my BBC colleagues.

And genuinely, I'm not blaming her or anyone at the BBC.

It seems to be what you have to do on short videos, on TikTok and so on, to get people engaged or to stop them from disengaging.

Otherwise, they'll just switch it off after one or two seconds.

It's not just speaking quickly.

You're fine.

Well, someone else who remembers Izal pretty well is the writer and broadcaster Adrian Chiles.

I was born in 1967, and for some reason it was the only toilet paper we ever had in the house.

I don't know why my mom bought it, but I didn't know to ask the question because I thought everybody used it.

And then I went to school, and of course, that was what there was in school toilet.

So it still seemed normal to me until I noticed the other kids didn't like going to the toilet 'cause they couldn't deal with the toilet paper.

I thought, "Strange children." And then, you know, it gets to the time when they're old enough to come round for tea.

Then I noticed there was a difference 'cause they go, "I, I can't use that toilet paper.

[laughs]

And then I asked around, and it turned out, you know, he, he was a, an inspirational figure.

I mean, I thought his book actually, um, I think it's called The Book of Joe.

It's one of the, one of the better books I've, I've ever read about anything.

I've just found him an absolutely fascinating person, and his thoughts on life and how he transformed, how he transformed the Rays.

But, you know, all his years, you know, coaching junior clubs or farm clubs or Little League club or whatever you call that.

I, I, I don't know the terminology.

[laughs]

Mm

...

if England, like, triumphed at this World Cup and the next Euros and the World Cup after that? What if the whole story changes? What forces might that unleash when it comes to English?

They have done better than us over the years, and so you have to ask, is that something to do with different types of psychology?

Ellis, just, just, um, just summarize your thoughts on, uh, on, on what we do with our wretched Englishness.

Tell us what you've been up to.

Well, I saw this study, which basically firms up what we all suspect, that when you nick somebody's chips...

They nick somebody's fries.

They taste better than your own fries, even if they're identical.

And I gave this some thought and I realized, well, it's not so much that I'd go around nicking other people's chips, although I do sometimes.

It's that I can't bear it when somebody steals from my own plate.

And so, which obviously marks me out as a hypocrite, which I'm very happy to confess to.

And a

[laughs]

... between them, had to, had to wrench it off me.

And my, hon- honestly, I, I then, actually a couple of years later, I, um, I, Frank Skinner and I went, were, were the mascots at West Brom.

Nobody knew 'cause we had the, we had the heads on as Baggy Bird and Baby Baggy.

And I put that costume back on, and I swear I could still smell myself from the marathon.

Yeah, me too.

No.

Well, I know what you need to do beforehand is drink water like nobody's business the day before and the morning of, and then stop one hour before the start of the race and make sure you're near somewhere to, uh, relieve yourself, and you should get by without, uh, with- w- without having to stop.

you spent the summer in Africa, didn't

you? No.

LAUGHTER I should...

Yes, very good.

I should have done that.

I suppose I should do it as West Brom's other kind of commercial mascot, Boilerman.

But it's so square, the Boilerman outfit at West Brom.

And it

[laughs]

Um, what do I hate mo- I mean, there's, there's a lot to choose, there's a lot to choose from there.

I think it's just losing things all the time.

All the time, lose things in the house.

Okay.

I will put something...

I'll have something in my hand, and suddenly it's not there, and I don't know where it is.

There's stuff I literally, and it's important, I literally never see again for no reason.

You didn't need to say that.

No, I, well, what have you been, uh, what have you been...

Oh, I do need to say it, trust me.

Have you, uh...

So what, what you been up to? Tell me something interesting or ask me an obscure question.

so will you give it to me now? [laughs]

I've started...

No, I've started formulating it, and, uh, it ran to 300 words, and I thought, "I'll never get this on the cover." So, uh-

Adrian, what is it about glasses? Why do you not like wearing them?

Why would anybody like wearing them? I've worn them since I was 14.

I cried tears.

I cried salt tears when I realised I would have to wear glasses.

I remember exactly where I was.

It was at a table tennis tournament at the National Exhibition Centre in Birmingham.

And my dad saw me squinting because I couldn't read the scores.

No, no,

Adrian, tell us how this young woman made your day.

Well, it was...

It was more the situation.

I was in Stourbridge, which is where I'm from, in the English Midlands.

And there was one of those petrol stations, which is also a supermarket, so that can clog the queue up.

And there's a young woman in there I'd actually noticed before, and she's American.

And, I mean, which is unusual in itself for an American.

And if they're not nice, it also makes a difference.