Acumenus

how matters stand with me and how as i conceive the affair may be arranged for the advantage of both of us and i maintain that i ought not to fail in my suit because i am not your lover for lovers repent of the kindnesses which they have shown when their passion ceases, but to the non-lovers, who are free and not under any compulsion, no time of repentance ever comes, for they confer their benefits according to the measure of their ability, in the way which is most conducive to their own interest.

then again lovers consider how by reason of their love they have neglected their own concerns and rendered service to others and when to these benefits conferred they add on the troubles which they have endured they think that they have long ago made to the beloved a very ample return the non-lover has no such tormenting recollections he has never neglected his affairs or quarrelled with his relations he has no troubles to add up or excuses to invent and being well rid of all these evils why should he not freely do what will gratify the beloved if you say that the lover is more to be esteemed because his love is thought to be greater for he is willing to say and do what is hateful to other men in order to please his beloved that if true is only a proof that he will prefer any future love to his present and will injure his old love at the pleasure of the new and how in a matter of such infinite importance can a man be right in trusting himself to one who is afflicted with a malady which no experienced person would attempt to cure for the patient himself admits that he is not in his right mind and acknowledges that he is wrong in his mind but says that he is unable to control himself and if he came to his right mind would he ever imagine that the desires were good which he conceived when in his wrong mind once more there are many more non-lovers than lovers and if you choose the best of the lovers you will not have many to choose from but if from the non-lovers the choice will be larger and you will be far more likely to find among them a person who is worthy of your friendship if public opinion be your dread and you would avoid reproach in all probability the lover who is always thinking that other men are as emulous of him as he is of them will boast to some one of his successes and make a show of them openly in the pride of his heart he wants others to know that his labour has not been lost but the non lover is more his own master and is desirous of solid good and not the opinion of mankind again the lover may be generally noted or seen following the beloved this is his regular occupation and whenever they are observed to exchange two words they are supposed to meet about some affair of love either past or in contemplation but when non-lovers meet no one asks the reason why because people know that talking to another is natural whether friendship or mere pleasure be the motive Once more, if you fear the fickleness of friendship, consider that in any other case a quarrel might be a mutual calamity.

But now, when you have given up what is most precious to you, you will be the greater loser, and therefore you will have more reason in being afraid of the lover.

for his vexations are many and he is always fancying that every one is leagued against him wherefore also he debars his beloved from society he will not have you intimate with the wealthy lest they should exceed him in wealth or with men of education lest they should be his superiors in understanding and he is equally afraid of any body's influence who has any other advantage over himself if he can persuade you to break with them you are left without a friend in the

or if out of regard to your own interest you have more sense than to comply with his desire you will have to quarrel with him but those who are non-lovers, and whose success in love is the reward of their merit, will not be jealous of the companions of their beloved, and will rather hate those who refuse to be his associates, thinking that their favourite is slighted by the latter, and benefited by the former.

for more

love than hatred may be expected to come to him out of his friendship with others.

Many lovers too have loved the person of a youth before they knew his character or his belongings, so that when their passion has passed away there is no knowing whether they will continue to be his friends, whereas in the case of non-lovers who were always friends the friendship is not lessened by the favours granted but the recollection of these remains with them and is an earnest of good things further i say that you are likely to be improved by me whereas the lover will spoil you for they praise your words and actions in a wrong way partly because they are afraid of offending you and also their judgment is weakened by passion such are the feats which love exhibits he makes things painful to the disappointed which give no pain to others he compels the successful lover to praise what ought not to give him pleasure and therefore the beloved is to be pitied rather than envied.

Consider, then, how can the drinking be made easiest? I entirely agree, said Aristophanes, that we should by all means avoid hard drinking, for I was myself one of those who were yesterday drowned in drink.

I think that you are right, said Ariximachus, the son of Acumenus, but I should still like to hear one other person speak.

Is Agathon able to drink hard? I am not equal to it, said Agathon.

Then, said Ariximachus, the weak heads like myself, Aristodemus, Phidrus, and others who never can drink, are fortunate in finding that the stronger ones are not in a drinking mood.

When Agathon had done speaking, Aristodemus said that there was a general cheer.

The young man was thought to have spoken in a manner worthy of himself and of the God.

And Socrates, looking at Eryximachus, said, Tell me, son of Acumenus, was there not reason in my fears? And was I not a true prophet when I said that Agathon would make a wonderful oration and that I should be in a strait? The part of the prophecy which concerns Agathon, replied Eryximachus, appears to me to be true, but not the other part, that you will be in a strait.

Why, my dear friend, said Socrates, must not I or anyone be in a strait who has to speak after he has heard such a rich and varied discourse? I am especially struck with the beauty of the concluding words.

And Socrates, looking at Eryximachus, said, Tell me,

son of Acumenus, was there not reason for my fears and was i not a true prophet when i said that agathon would make a wonderful oration and that i should be in a strait

the part of the prophecy which concerns agathon replied orixomachus appears to me to be true but not the other part that you will be in a strait

why my dear friend