A.G. Sulzberger

Right.

A- a- and you know, I'll just say- You've never seen A.G. Sulzberger, um, give a donation to Donald Trump, go and, uh, suck up to him.

It doesn't happen.

Doesn't take private off the records with him.

Right.

You know, there's also something that we should talk about that's an argument by New York Times publisher, A.G. Sulzberger, in a Washington Post op-ed early in the second Trump administration, where he talks about, and I think this is important because it hints at like, the subtleties, right, that press suppression in a modern democracy rarely looks like outright bans.

And he looks not towards like Nazi Germany, right, or Mussolini's Italy, but to Hungary under Viktor Orban as the template, like pressure applied through tax policy or broadcast licensing and subsidies, which gradually, right, produces this media landscape full of compliant media outlets, right? While the ones who are critical are basically like sort of shut out entirely, right? And end up sort of disappearing, right? Rather than being banned outright.

And I think his argument is important because, and this is a real risk in the United States as well.

Well, Lewis had to go as publisher of The Washington Post.

We had the publisher of The New York Times, A.G. Sulzberger, on.

The prodigious podcaster and new technology expert, Kara Swisher, who was rather extraordinary.

Uh, Gideon Levy, again from Haaretz, a very distinguished and brave reporter who every year, every week for the last 39 years, I think, gets into his car and drives into the West Bank to bear witness to what's going on there.

... uh, who has covered many White Houses obviously.

In 2019, w- well, before I go b- there, I don't think people understand how much A.G. Sulzberger in particular, who is our publisher, fights a fight that the rest of the journalism industry benefits from.

Yeah.

Uh, it's a pretty lonely fight at this point because The New York Times, and we are very lucky for this, is one of the only m- massive mainstream legacy media over which Trump has no levers whatsoever.