I

feel dead afterwards.

The very thing that gives me so much life is the thing that hurts me too, which is I've never known how to...

I have so many issues in life... thoughts feelings ocds just stuff that uh distracts me from life yeah i bet you feel this way too the second i get on stage or the second i get into the studio but talk about life second i get on stage i i become in my head what i've always seen as like a free normal person same i don't think about anything else i'm so present and i can't think about the next day i can't think about the day before i yeah you know all my traumas and the songs but that's kind of enough but my spirit is very present and to my own detriment sometimes you know like i don't have the ability to pace myself so

I've met

life.

I'm like, what the hell is this? This is crazy.

Completely.

But was that a big influence? And does it continue to be a big influence?

Yeah.

I mean, in the beginning of Bleachers, it was a literal Sonic influence.

Wow.

But...

But it's always been a big influence.

He's a master, and anyone who is, but him specifically is a complete master at just sewing together this great sadness and dissonance with great hope.

Mm-hmm.

I think you were gonna play a little bit of the song, weren't you?

Yeah, I'll, um... [piano] It's pretty direct.

[laughs] Another year passes of hopes and derailments.

Blood tests and high twos and loving the careless.

I'll litigate the family, our father's condition.

Better man, speeches, walls, caveman traditions.

But inches of glory and the leaps of true faith.

I get it, you know? Like, yeah

This is FUV Live Sessions with Jack Antonoff.

[cheers] [claps] How's everyone doing? [cheers] [claps] [guitar strumming] Okay.

This is the, uh, the newest song we put out and my origin story all in one.

I've only got to play it a few times, so let's try it.

[upbeat music] I left the house years ago.

Here's the story 'bout a kid and his shadow.

He just didn't wanna be lonely.

[audience applauding]

Wondering if you might indulge me a little, talk about, I guess, where that song kinda came from or what in- uh, what inspired it.

Well, I had...

Sometimes I have, I, I... like, broad ideas of a type of song I'd like to write, and I wanted...

I knew I wanted to write a song about the relationship between tangible things and loss.

You know, 'cause often it's like you lose someone and, you know, it's like the, the, the memories, the stories, you know, yada, yada, yada.

But actually the thing that more quickly can just, like, rip you right [laughs] back into that moment is, like, the im- you know, the... a thing, you know.

An action figure, a Burger King crown, a sand bottle, a piece of...

Like, what do you think is something that you have improved with over time, and w- is there still a goal for yourself? Even as one of the world's most, uh, celebrated and, and loved songwriters, is there still a, you know, a mark that you'd like to reach in the songwriting capacity?

Yeah, no, that's why it connects, because it makes you think that.

Well, yeah, so I mean, I can tell you who I'm talking about, but it's a little irrelevant because, like, all of the songs, we were talking about this before, it's like I tell a personal story to ask a bigger question.

If I tell a personal story, it makes my asking of the question have weight.

You know, if I wrote a song that was just like, you know, "Who do you need to talk to, Wiley? Who do you need to talk to? Be real with yourself.

Look in the mirror.

Who do you need to talk to, man?" You know, it's sort of like, "Shut the fuck up." When you put yourself on the line, it makes the question fair to ask.

So I had this idea of, I had an idea for a song, you know, before I wrote a song.

[laughs]

Not in the artistry

community maybe.

We could also chat about what fast food does to your body.

These things just are.

Sometimes you just feel the need to express what you feel and what everyone's feeling and Yeah.

You know, the idea of the modernity or the future or progress is supposed to be about making something better.

That's not always how it works out.

So Jack, speaking of something that is very real, your music across so many different genres, I got to ask, now that you have had all these collaborations with so many talented people, is there any genre or person that's still on your bucket list that you haven't checked off yet?

It's Bleachers, I Can't Believe You're Gone, here on World Cafe.

[singing] Well, another year passes of hopes and derailments.

Blood tests and Hi-Chews and loving the careless.

I'll litigate the family, our father's condition.

Better men, speeches, whilst cavemen traditions.

Inches of glory and the leaps of true faith.

No, they don't come easy, but they honor the ways.

[guitar music]

Yeah, yeah.

Who gets access? Because I don't, I don't...

I reject the idea that everyone gets access to everyone.

It's ridiculous.

Unless someone's making our laws, but if you're n- th- then that's for everyone.

But if you're an artist or if you're someone who's offering something, you're out there looking for your people, period, end of story, nothing else.

You are shooting messages in bottles out into the world, not for everyone, but just to find that one person.

Yeah.

[laughs] Do you find that this has given you a new reference to what the point of life might be?

Uh, yes and no.

I mean, like, I think when I'm writing I'm always vacillating between, like, the depths of existence and the joke.

And the only, the only thing I've mustered up in all of my writing and living my personal experience is that all that matters is getting the joke.

If you get the joke, then it allows everything to rush in.

It allows all the love, all the fear, all those things to rush in if you just get the joke.

You know, and the, the joke is, uh, the randomness of things.

Do you ever find that, does, does your producer brain ever get in the way of your artist brain?

Yeah, yeah

yeahThere's a, you know the Bob Dylan interview where he goes, "I didn't write these songs." Yeah.

"God, God [laughs] wrote these songs." Kind of recent, right? No, no, that's years ago.

60 Minutes.

It's years ago.

I thought it wa- I thought he...

Or he gave one recently where he was like, "I don't know how I did that." I- I just love it.

Yeah.

... is it, but you are the, you know, when it's often just you and w- and the artist in a room, how are you defining that sound versus another sound?

It's always the, the, the, it's always this, like, palette that emerges.

So those are perfect examples.

Like, when we were working on Chemtrails, it was, like, the stories that she was telling and where she was, especially after Norman, and it was this very, like, specific moment for her.

It's like this palette started to emerge, and there was, like, these, like, kind of, like, like a song like Tulsa Jesus F- Freak for me was a really important, like, f- one of the first things.

You know, there's a lot of messing around, and then you hear something, and you're like, "Oh, there's that tiny sliver in all of the universe and culture that we wanna, like, dive through 'cause it feels untouched." And there's these, like, they were, like, punchy but kinda, like, grimy, rhythmic sounds, but then there was acoustics, but then there was this, like, really, like, distonal low end.

You know, you, you can start to actually see what the hell it is, but it comes from magic.

Yeah.

It is so good.

So she's about to...

You know, first time we worked together was on the Make Me 1989.

So we were just kind of humming on this thing together.

Somehow we got talking about it.

I'm about to make the first Bleachers album, which really has that tone, and we just stayed in touch and then we started listening to some music.

And all the stories of my collaborations are just very simple.

Instead of trying to articulate something to someone else operating, you can do it and quickly figure out, no, that's not right.